The Interview
Kevin Kerrigan: welcome to Ketchup Popsicles, a discussion with business leaders about the art and science of sales in these one-on-one discussions with leaders across multiple industries, we discuss lessons learned when it comes to growing one’s business. And today we will be talking with Ryan Mack. Good morning, Ryan. Morning. Thanks. So yeah, tell us who you work for and what your role is.
Ryan Mack: Yeah, I am the CEO of peer sales agency out of Omaha, Nebraska. That makes you my boss. Yes.
Kevin Kerrigan: Yeah. Awesome, great. So what I get for me today…
Ryan Mack: Yeah, super cool. Interview process.
Kevin Kerrigan: So if you assign this to me… Alright, so where are you from? Where did you grow up?
Ryan Mack: Yeah, grew up in… I went to Elkhorn, hi in Omaha. We spent… Gosh, I was there until 2020, and then we moved down to Atlanta. We’re actually right in the middle of covid, which was interesting, but we love it down here and miss our friends and stuff back in out, it’s been a nice change.
Kevin Kerrigan: So tell me about your family.
Ryan Mack: Yeah, I’ve got my wife Tara and my son caring, just one 14-year-old boy to a…
Kevin Kerrigan: Alrighty, you and I are walking into a building together and I say, Yeah. What does peer do? What’s your 30-second pitch? My
Ryan Mack: Elevator pitch… Well, I would say, how many times have you heard a salesperson say how they hate dealing with the marketing department because it’s like pulling that to get anything done? Or on the flip side, how many times have you heard the marketing teams talk about how frustrating it is to do with sales because they’re always last minute, the priorities are always changing, or they’re never happy with what they have… This misalignment is rampant, and it manifests itself in a lot of different ways, whether it’s inconsistent messaging, un-repeatable sales processes, lack of sales tools, whatever it is, are… And our co-founder up here, we’ve dealt with this broken dynamic for our entire career, so we decided to build an agency that was specifically designed to help sales folks efficiently move buyers through that sales process to the point where they can make the best buying decision. So we said, Let’s create a marketing agency for sales people by sales people and close that loop between these two teams.
Kevin Kerrigan: Nicole’s break that down like… I know you’re a very thoughtful person when it comes to the speech that you just made, so like, Tell me about that sequence of how you carried that out to when you got to the punchline at the end, right. What you’re thinking on how you started and you prefer throughout that pitch.
Ryan Mack: Yeah, so I think people remember stories a lot better than they remember features and benefits, so starting to talk about an experience that we’ve had in an experience that probably resonates with people in sales and marketing by telling a brief story, I think will bring them into my world and take a seat, be able to see the dynamic that I’m explaining, and then when I say, Here’s the Tylenol for that headache, I think it hits home a lot better and they can visualize exactly what I’m talking about.
Kevin Kerrigan: Yeah, symptoms first, disease first, and then get a solution, you’re totally… Yeah, so that’s kind of the tactical side of it, kind of more of an each am side of it, what do you hope to accomplish from a personality introduction standpoint, what do you hope people walk away with? And maybe is there anything you consciously do to convey that persona building?
Ryan Mack: Yeah, good question. I want people to know that I listen, that I sit and I pay attention to what they’re saying. And I try not to be the one that controls the conversation, we’ve heard it growing up in sales at be the one that asks all the questions, keep your buy or talk and keep on talking, but I actually enjoy hearing people tell me all about… Whatever is going on, because they’re telling me a story and I’m gonna remember it better, and that of me asking just an on lot of questions and talking about all the things that I think I know and never getting any input. I don’t know how well I’ll retain that information long-term, and so I’m basically employing the fantastic that I do when I’m giving elevator pitches, which is try and remember what everybody needs to remember what we’re talking about.
Kevin Kerrigan: Now the story helps drive that home. I’m gonna just choose when they have here, I don’t know if this is true, but we could kind of fun thinking about it, but do you think that means you’re asking more why questions then what does why get to the story-based dancers more than… ’cause everybody’s got their what answers down. What do you do when I do A, B and C? But I don’t know. How… Is that your ear?
Ryan Mack: Yeah, I think what questions are quick to answer and why questions require them to think through what you said earlier, which is the origin of the issue versus the symptom of the issue, and so what we typically uncover in the Y is deeper understanding of maybe where the organization, where the organization’s flaw is manifesting itself in a way that a sales team is frustrated, and so they’ll say, We can’t get a good example, we can’t get any collateral develop. And so if you try and go solve that problem and deliver the collateral, what we’ll find out is that Why can’t you get collateral because I can… ’cause product isn’t being helpful, then we go to product and we start to find out that there might be an issue at the product level where they’re like, We can’t find differentiating features to build that’s going to help our sales team when we’re in a bit of a pickle right now. And so that why just building the slicks wouldn’t have solved the problem, they would have gone to market with something that doesn’t differentiate and it wouldn’t have resonated and no one would have called him, and so…
Ryan Mack: I love the side over what
Kevin Kerrigan: We towards you in goal of what Pure does of trying to bridge the gap on the melanin, this alignment, so… Yeah, yeah, those questions, it kind of forces people to hold a mirror up and go like, Yeah, why are we… A button, a manufacturer, I kind of forget what got us into this business in the first place when I was super frustrated that nobody had the buttons that I wanted in a timely delivery mechanism, so I thought I could solve that. It’s like a manufactured… Yeah, the super relatable. It’s funny, that wasn’t even taking a visual cue in the room, nobody is wearing buttons in this room is up and for as the level of focus we could afford ourselves today.
Ryan Mack: That’s a good…
Kevin Kerrigan: Alright, so I’m curious what your sales experience like, do you have a good memorable sales achievement, whether you’re personally involved in me, I was part of an entity that you were involved with, do you have a large deal, one or maybe re-born or loss, you just overcame an objection that they were really proud of.
Ryan Mack: Yeah, I actually just had an interview with a gentleman through medium that he asked me the same question, and I went with a big L that I got served when… Now, Kevin and I go back to election systems and software. And so we’ve worked together for a long time. This was me going into the State of Utah, and we were working that deal for a couple of years, 29 counties with the population center being in Salt Lake, the way that, as Kevin knows, but the way that voting system deals typically work is the state tries to make a uniform decision and bring all of the counties in to say what voting equipment should we use going forward? I got over time, Salt Lake is… They were a tough one, they were vocal, influential, and they could swing the arm any which way they wanted, and I had been working on them, but I had looked at everyone as if they were created equally, and so even the small county in the southeast, all the way up to the counties on the Wasatch Front, and by treating everyone equally, I found at the end of it that felt like carried a much heavier influence than everyone else, and they should not have been treated equally.
Ryan Mack: My competitor, meanwhile, spent all of her time with Sallie and won the deal because Salt Lake wanted that, and so what I learned was, yes, it’s important to distribute information to all individual stakeholders involved in a decision process, but don’t ever go into a deal not knowing who the decision maker and primary influencer is going to be… And so for, I think a more relatable example for sales people, as you’re going into selling enterprise deal, you’re working with… Let’s just say it’s for a sales application, a CRM, you’re selling a CRM, you go in and you sell the sales leader… That individual is sold. They take it up to the CEO, the CEO was sold. Who do you think might be a detractors that nobody thought about? Who would you say, Kevin? Coo or HR, depending on CFS, and it’s like any of that just Tob like, No, we don’t have the money. And they come out of nowhere when you don’t go into these situations is wide open, so my lesson coming out of that was now the dynamic top to bottom, left and right, so that you play your cards strategically throughout that entire buyer’s journey.
Kevin Kerrigan: Yeah, that makes me think about how… I’ve seen a lot of sales people will gravitate towards the most similar, similar personality type, or the person who’s on the most similar type of position at whatever entity they’re trying to sell… Right, yeah. So it’s just easy for them to go… If you’re selling so and you’re gonna go to the engineer at the manufacturing warehouse that you wanna sell pumps into, you’re gonna wanna go talk to any other engineers, and you’ll probably do a really good job of selling that engineer ’cause you talk like a duck. Can you walk like a duck? And all that stuff. But yeah, you forget about selling deep and why, but if you have any thoughts or advice on trying to execute on that, what becomes tougher is now you are going, maybe out of your comfort zone, and now you’re a salesperson who knows everything about… But I’m just gonna nail that theme throughout this now everything, erector, but yeah, now you gotta go. I’ll have a talk with the CFO. How do you, I guess, a make that authentic, not just make it come off a sales-y like I’m just shaking hands with everybody here, but also acclimate your language appropriately.
Ryan Mack: Yeah, I think that is where persona development comes into play, it’s very important, it’s such a marketing term, but sales teams, that should be page one in your playbook, as you’re flipping through it, you gotta know everyone that is a decision maker and influencer and a potential detractors in your sales process, and those persona breakdowns help you understand what a day in the life look like, what are the Jews and Don of engaging with this individual… What’s their archetypes? So that you can go in with the right energy. So what you might go into sales with leading maybe with more qualitative benefits and leave those in… We walk into the cfo’s office, right?
Kevin Kerrigan: Yeah, yeah, so yeah, you might be able to get a sales team for on the thing that’s gonna help them sell bacon a button like this. Yes.
Ryan Mack: I’m just gonna… Anand then the CFO, you walk in there and say that, and the first question out of her mouth is gonna be how much is the bite and then if you have the wrong answer and you don’t have good return on investment to backup… The whole thing falls apart. So
Kevin Kerrigan: Personas, personas are important and should not be overlooked and should be part of every sales team’s playbook, who do you think is responsible for, I guess, identifying the need for those, and then who’s responsible for executing the…
Ryan Mack: Oh, good question. Typically, marketing owns that, and I would say that marketing is typically the one who is responsible for the messaging strategy, obviously, and messaging strategies take into account who you’re talking to and what that ideal company profile looks like to tailor that messaging accordingly. So marketing should be the one that owns it, sales to be the one asking for it if marketing hasn’t delivered it, and they should be working hand in hand, which will become a theme of this podcast, I’m assuming, to get that from ideal, the way to done. Status. Yeah.
Kevin Kerrigan: Yeah, that’s good. What do you think is maybe shifting to thinking about sales people, their characteristics… We’ve talked high little tactical. What do you think is… Maybe I can… Let’s break this down. Let’s talk about hunters and farmers, people that are out there trying to get new revenue growth, new clients will talk a lot about them as hunters, and then we got people that are maybe responsible for cross-sale upsell and maybe a lot of companies… The same person, right. But what do you think with that distinction or the characteristic differences between your hunters and your farmers, if I hope there are some serious ones.
Ryan Mack: The Hunter needs to be un-phased by walking into a room of new people and going to the first pod of conversation injecting themselves and starting to have the conversation with all of those folks that he or she has never met, that I think is the number one trait of a hunter, if you do not have the confidence and skill set to do that, or… I think you do what… I just don’t see how you’re going to make hay standing in the corner when you lock eyes with the other person that’s standing in the corner and you have this fine conversation, but your job is to create awareness about what your company does and how you are going to be the person who bridges the gap between your two organizations, so hunters have to be outgoing. It doesn’t mean that they have to be the life of the party. And I think that’s where sometimes sales stereotype, they get a bad rap because you’ve got the individual that’s bombs at this happy hour at 6 o’clock, just shit-faced and loud and cards are flying everywhere and link to all get you on LinkedIn and joining…
Ryan Mack: Now.
Kevin Kerrigan: We’re just like, if I order an obnoxious amount of absorptive that nobody got a…
Ryan Mack: Yeah, and they’re the only one that’s drinking like triple VOD cause on the rocks. So I would say that that individual misrepresent the sales industry more often than not, but the key is be outgoing, because most of the people in that room are not comfortable being in that room, and so they’re looking for ice breakers, they’re looking for ways to not stand by themselves, to not just be the third wheel in a conversation to… They took time out of their day to come to this thing. And they need help. That’s a very small example, but it does happen on… I go to a lot of happy hours. Right, and so
Kevin Kerrigan: I was thinking the same thing even about your parent extrovert who’s doing all those fantastic behaviors, you said, yeah, they probably three out of four cases are doing that because they equally feel awkward and they feel like they have to be on… So they can overcome it, self-self-medication or just leaning into that awkwardness… Right. But now, it’s a good reminder that everybody’s feeling that way in that room for the most part, yeah, it’s a sale, but everybody’s looking to like feel a little more comfortable in that space, whether it’s now in the bohol, got their table set up, or it’s at the happy or… Before the dinner or whatever? Yeah.
Ryan Mack: I was at a happy hour last night, B2B, CFO, a company down here in Atlanta, fractional executives shoutout to those guys, a great happy hour last night, but there was… I looked around the room and saw 10 examples of people who were uncomfortable. So going back to the original question, characteristics of hunters, I would say the outgoing personality, that connector mentality is another one, let me connect you to so and so let me connect you to this person, that is something that I learned actually dealing with Mike Miller, shut out Mike at Omaha, the ultimate connector. Selfless, constant. Let me, I know somebody who could help you. I think that’s a wonderful trade for hunters because it’s help, it’s a help-first mentality, and it’s not self-serving, it’s trying to support your community, your networks, growth as a whole, and lifting them to see… Those are the two big ones that I look at for hunters, farmers I’m looking for… Unless you wanna talk more about hunters.
Kevin Kerrigan: I was just gonna put a button on there, I go to… That help first, that connect the dots idea, I think is, in your particular example, is selfless, but that’s also good for a hunter to whether it’s connect the dots on what are our mutual interest or do just probing and finding what is a value… What is a problem? Those are all kind of Hunter characteristics that will break down those first walls right, then they can get comfortable and then we can maybe start to build upon this relationship, but anyway, yeah. That’s not really a farmer…
Ryan Mack: So the farmer is… It’s a relationship gain all day long, it’s built on trust. The trust starts by being honest with your customer about what your company does well, what they don’t do well, when they make a mistake, owning it, being there to help resolve… Farmers make the most… Hey, in my opinion, when they are in the trenches of issue resolution with the customer, sharing in that experience with them, to come out on the other side and see success, that develops a level of trust that you cannot artificially generate through just random conversations and… Let me take you to lunch that there is a bonding that happens when, you know, I don’t wanna say when the shit hits the fan, it doesn’t have to be that dire, but when there is… When it’s not just easy sailing and it gets difficult, the Account Manager or the Customer Success manager or rep-ing right there, helping that. Now it’s, I’m always coming to you for everything. And you and I saw that as account managers early in our career in state and local government
Kevin Kerrigan: Eats almost having more like an account manager at that point, right at dissimilar into the operations world, a little more Sublette expertise possibly, right? Yep.
Ryan Mack: That’s… So my experience is that… Yes. Can you be a sales-minded farmer?
Kevin Kerrigan: Of course you can.
Ryan Mack: And there are plenty of them. My experience is that by taking an account manager mindset, they will always come to you first for How do I get this next thing, and how do I buy this next thing, and anything you put in front of them, chances are likely that they’re gonna convert with you versus another vendor that’s just
Kevin Kerrigan: In that year and in the paradigm of, are you just selling widgets? Are you selling expertise or are you an actual advisor, it’s gonna be pretty hard for your hunter to immediately be a trusted advisor, you’d have to have a heck of a reputation going in to that… Agree, that makes you right. But a farmer should… Absolutely, try to be a trusted advisor.
Ryan Mack: Subject matter expert, I think is also really important. They need to be able to answer questions that the customers have, because there’s no else is A… Hunter can be like, Let me bring in my sales engineer that they’ll kinda walk you through that again, connecting their job is to round up all the right people to make a good decision, the farmer… I think the expectation is that you’re able to answer that question eight to nine times out of the… When it gets really tricky bringing in engineers and whatever is fine, but the customer is looking to have answers. Yeah.
Kevin Kerrigan: Yeah, and our role, company philosophy, like they have to… I won’t be able to see it and get on it, right, Hasmonean and owning it, coming and bringing in an engineer, a sales engineer, or somebody who actually dies in the solution, but you still have to be at that level of competency, Anita it… We sold you two years ago, needs to be replaced. Yes, I totally agree with the 2000 AIS. All the race right now. So that I throw in a terminator reference. That’s good. So we’ve kind of broken down the people… Let’s talk about the tools that they’re armed with, what do you feel like… It’s tough to frame it this way, but universally what I must have tools that the sales team needs at their disposal, and this is gonna kind of dip into that marketing realm… Right, but yeah, so not the tools as far as their characters, it’s like we’ve been talking about the CRM slick.
Ryan Mack: Yeah, I would say number one tool is gotta be the CRM, Customer Relationship Management tool, you cannot manage your contacts in Excel, that’s just… First of all, there’s no excuse because these systems are free, they all have premium subscription models, but whether it’s HubSpot, Salesforce, Pipedrive, doesn’t matter, but hopping into this application helps you manage contact information across the entire company, every rep can get in there, stay up to day, put in segmentation type characteristics like Company size, industry, whether they are a lead or they’ve been qualified and they look like they could be a good fit for your company, or they’ve turned into an opportunity, you need to be able to track all of that to make good decisions on forecasting in the future, like you need this tool to house all of this information so that as you get more mature in your sales process, you can go back and run reports to see how you’ve progressed and gotten better.
Kevin Kerrigan: Such you mentioned why not excel? Everything we said on a technical level, especially with Excel thing, I would be shared in a network drive that everybody is like, what is it in your experience about the CRMS that takes it to that next level? Yeah.
Ryan Mack: I would say the user experience in a CRM is built to deliver the right level of detail by company, by contact and Vidal, whereas Excel is not built to do that, Excel is… Of course, you could, in fact, I think hubs 5 gives away three Excel-based CRMS to say Here, if you don’t believe, take this and go do it yourself. In the past, the number one reason was because you couldn’t collaborate in the system, now Excel can be shared and people can work real-time and Co of her documents. But before, you couldn’t do that. But we’re talking about an application specifically designed to house manage and drive insights from company and contact information, including built-in reporting that comes native in all of these three versions so that you can start seeing what type of impact you’re having with the tools and strategies you’re employing, whereas yourself… That would take a lot of time, and now you don’t have an excuse. It’s free, the CRMS are free, so you don’t have an excuse to not be in one.
Kevin Kerrigan: You know, one thing I always… You’ve heard me say, and in our talk, I think you always start with what reports do you need to run your business successful? And then you work backwards from there. I totally… What do I need to see at the end of every week? Every every month, quarter, fiscal year, when I would shop for CRMS based on that first, that would be part of… If I’m being pitched a CRM, I would… Yeah, I would do my diligence of having the reports ready, and then on that flip side is that user interface, you talked about, there’s so many people that would not do what’s necessary to catalog everything in Excel. Yeah, just won’t do it. Like you have to break that barrier of entry down.
Ryan Mack: I wouldn’t say to the CRMS all have apps for your phone, and I think that’s really important for sales, they don’t wanna work necessarily of a computer…
Kevin Kerrigan: Yeah, yeah, good point. Multi-platform integration. What else, any other tools or marketing elements?
Ryan Mack: So I’m a huge believer in case studies, does this wonderful thing of combining product efficacy, problem identification and solution and social proofing and authority by bringing in somebody’s actual experience with it, whether it’s a half a page little stack card, it’s a testimonial or it’s like a full blown on front and back, one pager of somebody’s experience, that to me, tells the story so much better than anything else, it just naming all of the everything that you’re trying to communicate in a website into one concise document. So I love the studies, I love scripts, I love scripts and templates, I think sales people spend an enormous amount of time… I do. I’m always going back through old emails that I’ve sent, how did I say that and what… Where’s that… Where’s that one email that I sent? And it’s so annoying because we’re not writers, we’re not content developers, we are sales people, and so templates, a templated email of, This is what I use when I first reach out, this is what I use after a meeting, this is what I use. Middle of funnel, bottom of funnel, whatever, if I can, I keep templates constantly, and I go back and refine them and personalize them, but I need the general structure of the email so that I can move faster and I don’t get hung up in.
Ryan Mack: It’s kind of like hers block that you get as a sales person… You know what I’m talking about?
Kevin Kerrigan: Yeah, I completely went throw the other day, and it was the specific scenario, if I want to reach out to somebody who I had a personal relationship with in the past, but never had a professional relationship, and I wanted to write that type of LinkedIn connection request, like Hey person, I know I’d love to get together and learn more about your business. So it can’t be written is so I’m not a stranger, I’ve put exactly that scenario into the cat GT, and it just knocked out a familiar re-introduction on a business level intro and then it has some ridiculous stuff in there now that had to be edited. It wasn’t flawless, but it was just kind of interesting exercise and how that gets helping getting over some of that writing book too.
Ryan Mack: That’s a good tool to throw in there, if you haven’t gotten on to open an I and Chad CPT. We’ll throw a link in this… You gotta try it. It is ridiculous. It’s getting smarter every day, and it’s very helpful in getting you unstuck when you’re just having trouble figuring out where to start, and I think it’s a phenomenal tool that people are going to… It’s gonna change the landscape, but that can be for another podcast. Yeah, yeah.
Kevin Kerrigan: Yeah, I wonder if anybody’s done podcasts on AI lately. So on the flip side, what are some tools that… This is my favorite Ryan Mac personality to bring out when Brian gets fired up about stuff, what are some ones that you hate or you see people over-leveraging or missing…
Ryan Mack: Yeah, you wanna… Should I bring up my LinkedIn in mail? Inbox, the most annoying thing is reaching out to your prospects with the same tired sentiments of, ohe, Hey, I know you’re busy, but… And that there are a handful of really rotten outreach templates that people use, and you know what they’re doing, they’re putting thousands of contacts into the sequences and just murdering people across the country with just the shit content available. And their whole philosophy is, it’s a volume game. And so anybody that’s doing that and listening to this podcast, you are screwing it up for the rest of us, I just wanna go on record to say, you’re making all of our lives the good sales people that are actually trying to deliver value add content, educate buyers, and how people come to an informed decision, you are growing it up for all of us, and I would like you to just stop and get a little more thoughtful because it’s Burt. I feel like LinkedIn outreach is so difficult right now because inbox in mail boxes are littered. So that’s number one. Have you experienced anything like that? Slightly with the male.
Kevin Kerrigan: For sure. And what that is, I don’t think I’ve received a cold outreach that wasn’t offering to do exactly what our business does, it just… Go deeper on that. I explain that. Yeah, they’re like, Are you having trouble getting leads? That’s one that we routinely get, which says to me a couple of things, like one, it says Everything negative about them, and they’re completely written off right away because this person is playing that numbers game and it hasn’t demonstrated any due diligence, so why would I… Even if your value proposition is ultimately interesting, just that outreach alone tells me personality-wise that you’re at best an expert, you’re never gonna be my trusted advisor, but then what they’re offering does actually suggest to me like, well, clearly this is a common problem, because the one thing I will give them credit for these people that spam is they’re not wrong in the problems they’re portraying to address, I would say They’ve at least done their diligence on the problem that is gonna resonate with people, they’re not all completely tone deaf in that regard, so these messages, maybe if you’re looking for a silver lining, is to pay attention to what they’re presenting at, so then their solution…
Kevin Kerrigan: I don’t care about your solution, but if they start talking about a problem that wasn’t aware of, that maybe it’s a signal for me to do some research… Yeah, yeah, a lot of solicitation for lead gen, a lot of solicitation for June, better marketing if you need health qualifying, what I got today was somebody that had the perfect solution where a proven with what they call it a study or program to vet sales people, and it was a perfect solution. With the proven track record setting sales people is awesome, that… That sounds perfect. Yes.
Ryan Mack: It, I love it. I can’t wait to use it and find out that it’s neither perfect North driven. So yeah, I hate the LinkedIn in male. Mass blast. I would say that I hate email blasting, but now, thanks to applications like Proofpoint and different spam filtering technologies, that stuff doesn’t even hit inboxes anymore, so I hate email blasting because it doesn’t get there, so that’s a tool that I actually liked, but then everybody screwed it up by spamming, and then spam filters got very intelligent, and now that AI is introduced into all of them, they’re going to become even more intelligent, so now I don’t like email mass marketing because I don’t think it gets there, but I don’t think it gets opened and then with the privacy stuff, you have no ice with is 14, you have no idea if they open click, you have no metrics, you have no insight, you’re really in the dark there, so I think it’s better to allow people to opt in to what it is that you’re doing good content, push it out into the marketplace to show that you understand the problems and that you have solutions to those problems, allow people to hopped in and own that buyer’s journey, that’s my recommend.
Kevin Kerrigan: Yeah, to summarize the former maybe as a good read on a problem, and they’re just gonna shock on blast out to the world and hope that that resonates, somebody’s really struggling with that problem, which I think ignores where you ultimately got to of what the prescription is instead is put out content about that problem and how you would approach it in your solution, and understand that people are not going to wait for somebody to hit their inbox, they’re gonna Google it, they’re gonna get their problem, they’re gonna… Google is doing that solution that they think solves it, and then they’re gonna land on you if you built your base correctly, position your position correctly from the search engine optimization standpoint or whatever use case, maybe…
Ryan Mack: How about one more? Hey, generalist. Generalists are vanilla. They don’t stand out. You are a tan Accord from 1998. However, mutants I used to see driving around when we were in nicely, just do not stand out. Be specific, be a specialist. It may feel counterintuitive because you are essentially narrowing your target audience, so her peer example, we are a marketing agency or a marketing agency that is focused on sales enablement, we are a marketing agency that is focused on sales enablement for FinTech and fine serve industries. We’re a marketing agency focus on FinTech, Fiserv, specifically with rias, that is like a rifle shot, and what it’ll do is resonate really, really well with rias and it will block out all of the noise from people that aren’t going to see value in your product anyway, so it feels counter-intuitive. It’s not… It’s actually very productive to get more specific, so generalist thumbs down, specialist thumbs up, and I think he will close more deals and for the record, Ryan was naming FinTech as an example. That’s a thing I am at the specific industry there, lemonade are an agency built for sales people, that is definitely our specialization.
Kevin Kerrigan: Yeah. Alright, well, back off, we’re not making this a sales proposal to cast, but central… Identify our market. Yes.
Ryan Mack: Thank you.
Kevin Kerrigan: Alright, well, Ryan, I appreciate your time. Is there any kind of other thoughts on these sales and marketing elements that you think you’d like to convey to the audience?
Ryan Mack: I would say marketing and sales, you guys need to stop the blame game and start spending a little more time with each other, probably outside of work, you need to develop a more personal understanding of a day in the life of each other because you work really hard for each other, and you’re both kind of assholes about it, to one another, sales doesn’t think that… Marketing gets it. And I gotta tell you, Bantry, I have sat in the Marketing Director position and we worked our ass off for the sales team, we wanted the sales team to be successful badly, but there are things that marketing people are not communicating to sales about why prioritization is so important and how getting hit from 16 different reps on totally different asset needs that are all required next week is impossible, and so you guys gotta spend a little time together because you literally have the same goal should… Your objectives are the same, it’s all part of the buyer’s process, which is you do find prospecting beyond awareness, get them into the funnel, deliver information that helps them differentiate you from everybody else, position a price that’s really attractive…
Ryan Mack: Close the deal. That is your guys’s job. So don’t be the gang and they can’t shoot straight, get aligned, put down the beef, marketing directors, sales directors, you start that process, it hits from the top down like… I am so annoyed with this because you guys could be a powerful dynamic duo if you would just figure it out.
Kevin Kerrigan: So I think the theme throughout every answer you give is just be a human… Goodness on Ottoman mornin. One, another
Ryan Mack: Be empathetic. Yes, I think that’s a really important theme.
Kevin Kerrigan: Let’s get out there and just sing those buttons. Oh God, thanks Ryan.
Ryan Mack: This is good, man. Thank you very much. I know what button. Alright.
